Author: Know Why

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How Do I Overcome Failure and Workism? Know About Thriving at Work

Interview With Peyton Luke: Part 2

In Part 2 of Know Why’s interview with Peyton Luke, also the final episode of our Thriving at Work series, Peyton talks about a public “fail” she experienced in college and what it taught her about life and career. Peyton also pinpoints the root of much of America’s workism and offers pointers for developing a healthier work-life balance. Listen to Part 1 here.

Ancient Wisdom for Working Today

At the end of the previous episode, Peyton mentioned the importance of one’s mental state in overcoming imposter syndrome—specifically in viewing pressure as an opportunity.

In this episode, Liberty and Peyton discuss passages from the Bible relevant to work life, including those that highlight the importance of positive thinking. Philippians 4:8 says, “whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.”

“I think a lot of people don’t have an accurate perception of what the Bible contains,” Liberty noted. “There is so much wisdom in it and encouragement.” Science also shows the crucial mental and physical health benefits of a positive thoughts over negative ones.

“Your worth is not just in your work.”

Peyton Luke

Peyton referenced the preceding verses, Philippians 4:6-7: “Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”

“That was a verse that I would return to so much in those times,” Peyton said of difficult seasons in college, in addition to other favorite wisdom from the Bible that helped her through seasons of work:

  • “We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed” (2 Corinthians 4:8-9).
  • “He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?” (Micah 6:8)

What if I Fail?

There are times when life doesn’t go as planned. What happens when you don’t get the job you wanted? When a work project doesn’t go well, or when you make a mistake? Peyton shares about an experience of hers in college that many considered a fail, but resulted in life lessons and even better outcomes than she had anticipated. “Just because you fail doesn’t mean you stop,” Peyton said.

Overcoming Workism

Workism, previously covered on the Know Why Podcast, is a pervasive and growing issue in the United States that doesn’t lead to personal happiness or, ironically, even the most productive outcomes at work. Peyton theorizes that workism stems, in many cases, from a hardworking immigrant mentality of appreciating new opportunities, desiring to prove oneself, and striving to survive. Peyton shares the story of her own family’s immigrant heritage and how that still influences her work ethic today.

But you have to develop a healthy balance, she realized. If you neglect other aspects of life including relationships, community, and sleep itself, you’ll suffer.

“Your worth is not just in your work,” she said.

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How Can I Overcome Imposter Syndrome? Know About Thriving at Work

Interview with Peyton Luke (Part 1)

Over 80% of people experience imposter syndrome. Has that ever been you? In this episode of the Know Why Podcast, Liberty’s longtime friend Peyton Luke, Media Specialist at First Liberty Institute, shares how she overcame imposter syndrome and learned to handle the hurt of being misunderstood in a professional position. Peyton and Liberty also discuss the importance of strong faith and solid friendships, specifically in helping one thrive at work. Are you ready to gain confidence in where you’ve been placed? Listen now, or keep reading.

Letting Go

Peyton is the Media Specialist at First Liberty Institute, as well as the producer and a host of First Liberty Live. Previously Peyton worked as a church media director, in the presidential office at Oral Roberts University, and interned with Fox News in New York City. She majored in Convergence Journalism at ORU where she also served as student body president her junior year, and is now working on her Master of Jurisprudence degree from A&M School of Law.

In short, Peyton understands the pressures of being thrown into high-visibility roles with lots of responsibility. In this episode (the first in a two-part interview), Peyton talks about the hurt of being misunderstood by others and how she learned to let go of worrying about other people’s perceptions while maintaining professional decorum.

“You cannot control what other people’s perception is of you, especially in a public position,” she told Know Why.

“If someone else was meant to be there, they would be there.”

Peyton Luke

These types of work stressors aren’t unique. Research continuously shows that younger generations, including younger millennial and Gen Z, are the most stressed out at work, are struggling with imposter syndrome, and feel pressure to perform perfectly.

For Peyton, the key to overcoming these kinds of pressures at a young age was staying grounded in her Christian faith. That included staying focused on her calling and surrounding herself with strong friends who would encourage her during difficult times.

You’re Not a Fraud

Eighty-two percent of people experience imposter syndrome, according to research. In the episode, Peyton defines imposter syndrome and gives some tips for overcoming it. One tip learning to see work pressure differently. “When you start to feel the pressure, take it as an opportunity,” she said.

Click here to listen to Part 2 of Know Why’s interview with Peyton Luke.

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Can I Enjoy Work Outside of My Dream Job? Know About Thriving At Work

Interview With Steve Miller (Part 2)

In the second installment of this two-part interview, radio producer Steve Miller talks about his favorite jobs, what job he hated, and what made the difference. At the core of this conversation are some important questions… is it possible to do what you’re passionate about, even when it doesn’t pay the bills? Is it possible to enjoy a job that isn’t your “dream?” And what does worshiping God have to do with it all? The latest in Know Why’s Thriving at Work series, this episode is a conversation you’ll enjoy. (Listen to Part 1.)

What Makes You Love a Job?

In recalling what the varied job titles he’s held, Steve shares what make certain jobs awful, tolerable, or enjoyable. “It’s hard to say what makes you love a job,” he says. “I think it’s a combination of loving the actual work you do and loving the environment you’re in.”

That doesn’t mean you have to be working your “dream job” to be enjoy work. In fact, Steve believes it’s important to accept that for most people, desires and work aren’t always perfectly aligned.

“To find pleasure in the work that we are given to do is in itself a communion with God.”

Steve Miller

There are even some benefits to separating one’s passion—or avocation—from one’s job—vocation. For instance, burnout is more likely when the thing you’re most passionate about and the thing that pays the bills are one and the same. It can be hard to draw proper work-life boundaries.

Reject the Idea of the ‘Idealized’ Life

The idea that one’s reality must match up perfectly with their “ideal” is faulty, Steve argues. He says waiting on the “perfect” thing to come along—whether that’s the perfect job or the perfect life partner—is a recipe for misery. Instead, we should look for joy in what’s already before us.

As a Christian, Steve argues that God created humans to work and find joy in it. “To find pleasure in the work that we are given to do is in itself a communion with God,” he said.

Other Advice

To find happiness in both avocation and vocation, Steve has a few tips:

  • Try to find a job you’re good at and enjoy, even if it isn’t your “dream job.”
  • Seek counsel from others. Specifically, ask trusted people what talents and abilities they see in you.
  • Find a local faith community and get involved with other people. A good community—even if unrelated to your specific line of work—will refresh your soul and offer the strength you need to face whatever work is before you.
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What if My Passion Doesn’t Align With My Vocation? Know About Thriving at Work

Interview With Steve Miller (Part 1)

Do what you love and you’ll never work a day in your life.

`According to Steve Miller, that ancient proverb is misguided. In the first installment of this two-part interview, Steve shares the long journey he took to discover his true passion—drama—and why it’s more than okay that drama isn’t his livelihood today. The latest in Know Why’s Thriving at Work series, this episode offers a fun conversation about childhood dreams, work, meaning, hobbies, community, and more. 

Steve’s career hasn’t turned out the way he planned. In the episode, Steve shares how his aspirations went from being a pilot, to being a preacher, to being a teacher, to acting. Today, though busy with multiple acting projects on stage and on film, Steve’s job title is producer of Point of View Radio Talk Show.

Reframing Our Attitude Toward Work

Steve is ok with the fact that acting, while his passion, isn’t his livelihood.

“‘Find something you love to do and you’ll never work a day in your life.’ I think that’s the most ridiculous thing to say,” Steve told Know Why. “Because why? Because it assumes that work’s a bad thing.”

“Find something you love to do and you’ll never work a day in your life. I think that’s the most ridiculous thing to say … because it assumes that work’s a bad thing.”

Steve Miller

A Christian, Steve points out that humans were created to work. It’s not necessarily our job titles that must change in order for us to be happy at work, he argues, but our understanding of work itself.

Everyone has to do tasks they don’t like, whether they’re making money at their “dream job” or not. One can find meaning in their work—whatever it is—by “doing it as unto the Lord,” Steve said, quoting the Bible verse Colossians 3:23. He added that part of working unto the Lord is understanding that we need to be in community with other people. Liberty noted that one of the recognized “secrets” to happiness at work is finding meaning in one’s work, specifically by viewing one’s work as a service to others or making the world a better place.

Quoting Frederick Buechner, Steve said:

“‘The place God calls you to is the place where your deep gladness and the world’s deep hunger meet.’ So this ‘place’ is not going to be the same for you as it is for me and vice versa. But it involves not just the satisfaction of our passion, our joys, our desires … but also the meeting of the needs of others.”

In Part 2 of this interview, Steve shares more about finding joy in both paid and unpaid work, and why our vocation and avocation don’t have to align for us to be happy.

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What if I Don’t Want a Traditional Career? Know About Thriving at Work

Interview with Kerri Christopher

Does the thought of working 40 hours a week at the same place for decades sound unappealing? Here’s your permission slip to say so out loud! In this installment of our Thriving at Work series, life coach Kerri Christopher from Clarity Life Consulting acknowledges that “having it all” is exhausting, explains what a “portfolio life” looks like, and challenges the notion that a successful career equals a successful life. She also shares tips for discerning what path your work life should take, and offers free resources to help. If the pressure to “climb the ladder” has been too heavy, breathe a sigh of relief and listen to Kerri’s refreshing perspective.

The Lie of ‘Having it All’

“Having it all” may sound nice, but in reality it can place pressure on people, especially women, to extend themselves beyond a healthy capacity. “Having it all” actually becomes doing it all—an impossible task for anyone.

“For many women and probably men too, there is this often unspoken societal pressure to do all the things, but most women are really tired out it,” Kerri told Know Why. “And it’s ok to say, ‘That version of life is not for me.’”

How do we avoid the trap of keeping up with the pressure to “have it all?” Kerri said we should practice discernment to decide what things in life are worth focusing on. There are many ways to discern the appropriate path for one’s life, including prayer, journaling, and self-reflection. Kerri offers a free journaling workshop to help with this effort.

Work vs. Career

When discerning one’s path, it’s key to keep in mind that work doesn’t equal career—and not everyone has to have or desire a “traditional” 40-hour/week career. Different seasons of life can lend themselves to different pursuits and even different levels of productivity, and that’s ok.

“For many women and probably men too, there is this often unspoken societal pressure to do all the things, but most women are really tired out by it.”

Kerri Christopher
Clarity Life Consulting

“Lots of people have varied interests and they don’t want to be defined by one particular line of work,” Kerri told Know Why. “They want the chance to do different things throughout their lives, or the different seasons of their lives.”

Stepping outside of the career mindset means acknowledging that there is more to life than one’s job title. In fact, the impact a person has outside of their career is what’s most valuable from an eternal perspective. “I think somewhere along the way we picked up a cultural message that a successful career is a successful life, and a lack of career or unsuccessful career is a failure of life, and nothing could be farther from the truth,” Kerri said.

It’s ok for our lives to be divided up into seasons or chapters, and it’s ok for our desires and interests to change and evolve overtime to best fit the season we’re in.

Ultimately, Kerri says we should ask our Creator for guidance regarding the best path for our individual gifts and talents, even if it differs from cultural expectations surrounding career and success.

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Can I Avoid Burnout? Know About Thriving at Work

Interview with Dr. Eddy Brewer

Is burnout unavoidable? With workplace stress at an all-time high, it may seem that way. But according Dr. Eddy Brewer, Senior Pastor at Capitol Hill Assembly of God in Oklahoma City, the answer is no! His studies prove it is possible to prevent burnout and cultivate a healthy work-life balance. He shares the “how”—backed by extensive research and ancient wisdom—in this episode of the Know Why Podcast, the first in our series on Thriving at Work. 

A Common Problem

New research from Future Forum found in 2023 that over 40 percent of workers (of 10,000 full-time, desk-based employees in six countries) reported being burned out. Those under 30 experienced burnout at even higher rates, and were the most at risk for burning out.

This aligns with Dr. Brewer’s findings. After writing his doctoral dissertation on burnout among clergy, Dr. Brewer discovered that “the majority of burnout among ministers happens within the first five years, and the majority of that happens within the first three years.”

It’s your responsibility to give attention to your spiritual condition.”

Dr. Eddy Brewer, Capitol hill Assembly of God

In short, work-place stress is hitting young adults hard. Dr. Brewer found other information in his research that may surprise listeners. Those most likely to experience burnout are unmarried singles. Among married people, those without children are more likely to experience burnout than parents. In general, women experience more burnout than men.

Think you might be experiencing symptoms of burnout? It’s typically marked by three signs, Dr. Brewer explained: emotional exhaustion, cynicism, and a lack of personal accomplishment.

Several factors can lead to burnout, Dr. Brewer said, including “unrealistic expectations” both of your job and your own performance. Lacking identity outside of work is also a big factor. “Try to separate your identity from your work,” he said. “Get your identity from who God made you to be, not just your career.”

Preventative Measures

How can you avoid burnout? Dr. Brewer suggests five steps:

  1. Take care of your spiritual health.
  2. Be thankful.
  3. Rest.
  4. Get a hobby.
  5. Maintain meaningful and healthy relationships.

He also recommends reading the biblical book of Psalms, even if you’re not a frequent reader of Scripture. Many of the Psalms were written by David, a figure in the Bible who experienced burnout and frequent stress. The range of emotions expressed in the Psalms will resonate with anyone experiencing burnout. David wasn’t the only biblical figure to experience burnout. On the podcast, Dr. Brewer shares stories of others in the Bible who are burned out and learn to cope through things like delegation of leadership, naps, food, and more.

More Resources

Dr. Eddy Brewer has offered to email his dissertation on burnout to anyone who requests a copy. Readers will find a detailed list of resources on the topic in the dissertation. To request a copy, email [email protected].

He also recommends The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: How to Stay Emotionally Healthy and Spiritually Alive in the Chaos of the Modern World by John Mark Comer.

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Why is the Black Community Overrepresented in Abortions? Know About Pro-Lifers Series 

Interview with Cherilyn Holloway

Listen now!

Can racial justice and pro-life activism go hand-in-hand? In this episode of the Know Why Podcast, the latest installment of our Know About Pro-Lifers Series, Cherilyn Holloway says they not only can, but should. Founder and president of Pro-Black Pro-Life, Cherilyn challenges listeners to think and step outside the box in order to understand the systemic factors driving African American women to abortion. She offers practical advice for pro-life activists and a hopeful call for people from all backgrounds to work together to build a better future.

The Numbers

Even though African Americans only make up around 12 percent of the American population, they make up about 40 percent of abortions in this nation. 

“We are essentially aborting our future.”

Cherilyn Holloway, Pro-Black Pro-Life

“We are essentially aborting our future,” Cherilyn told Know Why.

The fact that African American women are overrepresented in abortion statistics is well-known, but the why behind that fact is often overlooked. 

That’s part of what led Cherilyn to start Pro-Black Pro-Life. She said she didn’t fit neatly into boxes people assumed she would be in. For instance, participating in pro-life activism didn’t make her a Trump-supporter. But in pro-life circles, she found her concerns about racial justice misunderstood or ignored.

“I realized that my community immediately categorized ‘pro-life’ to mean ‘anti-Black,” Cherilyn said, “because people who were pro-life typically advocated and voted for policies that were against their best interest.”

“I need people to know that I’m pro-Black and pro-life,” she added. “One does not mean you’re not the other.”

The Drivers

So what is driving Black women to abortion? Cherilyn mentioned several “systemic” problems, the largest, she believes, being economic imbalance. 

“Seventy percent of women who are Black single moms who find themselves in a position to choose abortion make $35,000 or less,” she said. “Single moms who are African American who make $40,000 or more are 70 percent more likely to actually have their child. So we’re talking about a $5,000 difference a year.”

“I need people to know that I’m pro-Black and pro-life. One does not mean you’re not the other.”

Cherilyn Holloway, Pro-Black Pro-Life

If pro-lifers want to help lower the abortion rate in the Black community, recognizing and working to close gaps like those is key. 

“The only solution to a woman having economic issues when she’s pregnant is not abortion,” Cherilyn added. “Why is that the only choice she gets? It’s not choice.” 

Nine Days

Sometimes closing a gap for a woman facing an unplanned pregnancy simply means walking with her through the initial crisis.

“Typically a crisis situation lasts nine days,” Cherilyn said. “And if you can intervene within that nine days with tangible solutions, you can help bring somebody out of that crisis mode and into a more cognitive thinking process.”

“The only solution to a woman having economic issues when she’s pregnant is not abortion. Why is that the only choice she gets? It’s not choice.” 

Cherilyn Holloway, Pro-Black Pro-Life

How can you be there for women in you community during their days of crisis? It starts with knowing what resources are available in your community and state, so that you can equip women with what she needs. It’s also important to know your own gifts and find ways to help that are right for you.

Can you give women without transportation a ride to doctor appointments? Make yourself available. Do you like public speaking about pro-life matters or racial justice? Make sure you’re educated about what you want to discuss. Cherilyn recommends reading The New Fight for Life: Roe, Race, and a Pro-Life Commitment to Justice by Benjamin Watson for a “more of a nuanced view of the issue and what to do about it.” Cherilyn wrote the foreword.

Cherilyn left podcast listeners with these words of wisdom:

“I would just like to remind everyone not to put people in boxes, not to immediately put your defenses up. Pro-black does not mean anti-white, pro-life does not mean anti-Black. Understand that there are different organizations and people who are running this race, and even though we’re not in the exact same lane, we have a common goal that we are running to. Be open-minded, be humble, and receive things as they come.”

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Are All Pro-Lifers Religious? (Part 2) Know About Pro-Lifers 

Interview with Monica Snyder

Monica Snyder from Secular Pro-Life is back! In Part 2 of her conversation with Know Why Podcast, Monica tackles tough questions, including… Do pro-lifers care about bodily autonomy? Do embryos really have heartbeats? Are women being denied life-saving treatment post-Roe?

Scroll to end for links to additional resources and information.

Bodily Autonomy

Supporters of abortion say women should not be forced to support a fetus via pregnancy, and remaining pregnant when one would rather not be may violate bodily rights. Do pro-lifers care about women’s bodily autonomy?


“We’re all humans and we should be trying to create a society where we’re taking care of each other.” 

Monica Snyder, Secular Pro-Life

Monica told Know Why, “Most pro-choice people already think there should be limits on bodily rights.” For instance, the majority of Americans, including those who identify as pro-choice, support some limits on abortion.

She also noted that most pro-choice people wouldn’t support a mother intentionally starving her child by denying to breastfeed, even though breastfeeding requires a woman to use her body for the sake of another.

The difference is that some pro-choice people may not consider a baby a person with human rights until they’re born. “Bodily rights … only work in the abortion debate if you assume first that the embryo or the fetus is not a person,” Monica said. For the full conversation on personhood, listen to Part 1 of Monica’s interview.

Monica and Liberty also discussed how all humans are dependent on each other at some point in their lives.

“Embryos and fetuses are our offspring,” Monica explained. “They are members of our species. We were them at one point. They will be us eventually, in the sense of life stages. I feel like the abortion debate makes it so ‘us versus them,’ and it’s not accurate.”

Women’s Wellbeing in the Post-Roe World

But pregnancy does take a toll on women’s bodies—even when a pregnancy isn’t considered especially dangerous. It doesn’t do pro-lifers any good to downplay the difficulty of pregnancy, Monica believes. “I think that sometimes our side is too glib about what pregnancy entails, even a healthy pregnancy that’s not dangerous,” she said.

And when a pregnancy is dangerous? This became a major concern of many Americans after Roe v. Wade was overturned at the Supreme Court in 2022. When abortion was outlawed or more severely restricted in several states, news stories told frightening tales of women not receiving care for conditions like ectopic pregnancy or miscarriage. Abortion advocates warned women they could be prosecuted for seeking emergency medical treatment for miscarriages or medical emergencies during pregnancy.

“I think that sometimes our side is too glib about what pregnancy entails.”

Monica Snyder, Secular Pro-Life

Were these stories an accurate depiction of the Post-Roe landscape? In the episode, Monica explains which stories were likely to be untrue based on the laws of the state where they allegedly took place, what many state laws actually say about receiving emergency medical care while pregnant, and in which cases states may need to add more clarity to ensure women do receive the care they need.

Pro-lifers need to say to pregnant women, “Listen, whatever procedures or medication, or whatever you need to make sure that you are safe, those should be accessible,” Monica told Know Why.

Does an Embryo Have a Heart?

Many pro-life laws were activated by the Dobbs v. Jackson decision that overturned Roe, but other pro-life laws, like “heartbeat bills,” were growing in popularity around the nation even before the Supreme Court’s landmark decision. Heartbeat laws prohibit abortion after a heartbeat is detected via ultrasound. In response to these laws, abortion supporters began claiming that embryos don’t have heartbeats or even hearts yet—something that “astounded” Monica.

“Yes, there is a heart.”

Monica Snyder, Secular Pro-Life

“Yes, there is a heart,” she said, citing scientific information about the embryonic heart and using her biology background to explain its early development. “The heart is one of the first things to develop to get coordinated blood pumping.”

To learn more about the development of the embryonic heart, state laws regarding women’s health post-Roe, or any other topic covered in Know Why’s conversation with Monica Snyder, visit Secular Pro-Life’s website at one of the links below:

More Resources

Read About Embryonic Hearts

Read about the difference between elective abortion and treatment for ectopic pregnancies

Did Missouri outlaw treatment for ectopic pregnancies?

Will women be prosecuted for seeking treatment for a miscarriage? (And other answered questions about the Dobbs v. Jackson case)

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Are All Pro-Lifers Religious? (Part 1) Know About Pro-Lifers

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Interview with Monica Snyder

Religious. Fundamentalist. Republican. This stereotype is how many people imagine pro-lifers.

Monica Snyder, an atheist and Executive Director of Secular Pro-Life, busts that stereotype in a two-part interview with Know Why Podcast, part of our Know About Pro-Lifers series. In this episode, Monica talks about Secular Pro-Life and uses her background in biology to weigh in on the fascinating discussions surrounding the beginning of human life and personhood. Ready for shattered perceptions and a biology lesson? Start listening, or keep reading!

An Organization for Non-Religious Pro-Lifers…And Everyone Else

Secular Pro-Life’s mission, according to its website, is to:

  1. Advance secular arguments against abortion;
  2. Create space for atheists, agnostics, and other secularists interested in anti-abortion work; and
  3. Build interfaith coalitions of people interested in advancing secular arguments.

People of various beliefs work with the organization. “To be blunt, we don’t actually care what your religious beliefs are, or your political views,” Monica told Know Why. “We care, if you want to work with us, to advance arguments against abortion that are accessible to people broadly speaking—so non-sectarian, non-partisan arguments against abortion.”

“To be blunt, we don’t actually care what your religious beliefs are, or your political views.”

Monica Snyder
Secular Pro-Life

Secular Pro-Life’s existence is a surprise to many people on both sides of the abortion debate. “One of the biggest stereotypes about pro-lifers is that they’re all religious fundamentalists, and so that’s what pro-choice people are expecting,” she said.

Other pro-lifers are sometimes surprised to find an organization dedicated to opposing abortion that is not faith-based, Monica explained. But she added that many religious pro-lifers have non-religious bases for their pro-life position, so aren’t as surprised to meet secular individuals who oppose abortion as well.

Life’s Beginning…Biologically Speaking

Science is what drew Monica to the pro-life argument. With an educational and professional background studying biology and working in a forensic lab, Monica said she enjoys “the scientific method—trying to come up with a question and test the hypothesis and figure out if it’s true or not.” She continued:

“What that means for the work I do with Secular Pro-Life, is a lot of times I will be looking at different factually verifiable claims having to do with the abortion debate, and trying to figure out what evidence there is or isn’t for them.”

One of the claims often made by pro-lifers is that life begins at conception, or fertilization.

“It is, yes, a biological fact that in terms of us as organisms, our life cycle begins at conception. That’s not a religious belief, that’s just straight biology,” Monica said, emphasizing that it’s important for everyone to understand this (and understand the difference between cells and organisms) before debating about abortion.

“It is, yes, a biological fact that in terms of us as organisms, our life cycle begins at conception. That’s not a religious belief, that’s just straight biology,”

Monica snyder
Secular Pro-Life

But she also said the debate between pro-lifers and those who are pro-choice isn’t just about biology. “The philosophy comes in when we ask ourselves, ‘Ok, is that human organism morally valuable? Is that human organism a person? Does that humans organism have rights?”

These questions about whether and when a particular human organism has value and rights—personhood—is where most of the abortion debate rests.

The Making of a Person

“Pro-choice people have a lot of different ideas for when a human becomes a person, but we find that they all involve some major, very scary flaws in the argument,” Monica said.

For instance, many pro-choicers argue that a human organism in the womb isn’t a moral person until they have certain cognitive functions, such as perception of pain. But that logic implies that many people who are already born—whether premature infants in some cases, or people with certain disabilities—don’t qualify for personhood either.

“I take great issue with a philosophy that results in not only the dehumanization of embryos and fetuses to justify an abortion, but the dehumanization of groups of people that the person speaking wouldn’t even agree with.”

So when do human organisms gain personhood? Many people of faith, such as Christians, base personhood on the biblical belief that all human beings are created with inherent value, “in the image of God.” But what about for people who aren’t religious?

Secular Pro-Life’s position, explained in detail with multiple links to scientific references on their website, is that all human organisms are valuable and that it is generally immoral to kill people.

In Part 2 of this interview, Monica explains her take on more important topics often raised in the abortion debate, including bodily autonomy and more.

Additional Resources

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Can Women With Unplanned Pregnancies Find Support at Church? Know About Pro-Lifers

Interview with Amy Ford

What would it take for churches to provide the love, support, and encouragement women need when they’re unexpectedly expecting? Amy Ford, President and Founder of Embrace Grace, has some ideas.

Amy launched Embrace Grace, Inc. in 2008 after experiencing her own unexpected pregnancy. Today Embrace Grace equips churches nationwide to do their part. Lives are being changed and saved as a result.

In this episode of the Know Why Podcast, a continuation of Know Why’s series Know About Pro-Lifers, Amy shares her powerful testimony. She also tells listeners about the ministry that is making churches a place more pregnant women want to run to instead of away from.

“It’s Just What You Did”

Raised in church, Amy became “unexpectedly expecting” at age 19 with her high school sweetheart. When her abortion appointment didn’t go as planned, they decided to get married—but the first pastor they asked refused to marry them.

(Hear the whole story of Amy’s unexpected pregnancy, marriage, and reconciliation with the pastor who refused to marry them on the podcast.)


“There are over 300,000 churches in America. If we all were doing our part, we could make abortion unthinkable.”

Amy Ford, President
Embrace Grace, Inc.

Amy’s story wasn’t unique. Many other women have faced similar experiences in church, encountering judgment, shame, and loneliness at a time when they need love and guidance.

As one pastor told Amy, recalling a less-than-gracious response to a congregant’s unplanned pregnancy that he later repented for, “It’s just what you did.”

But is that the Christian way?

Pro-Love

Amy reminds listeners that it’s God’s kindness that leads us to repentance (Romans 2:4). She also references the biblical parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32) to illustrate how churches should respond to women with unplanned pregnancies. In the story the father throws a party for his son who returns after running away. That’s how God is, and how the church should be. Instead, we can often be like the other son in the parable, Amy said—envious of the celebration the father throws for his rebellious son.

Amy founded Embrace Grace, Inc. to equip churches to respond to women with unplanned pregnancies the right way—an approach she calls “pro-love.” While being pro-life is a political stance, “Pro-love is where the change happens. That’s the action,” she said.


“You can have your baby and your dreams too.”

Amy Ford, President
embrace Grace, Inc.

If more churches were truly pro-love, offering the support and assistance women need when facing an unplanned pregnancy, the felt need for abortion would disappear, Amy argues.

The majority of women who have abortions are doing so because they feel they have no other choice due to finances and other responsibilities, one study found. Churches can alleviate these concerns for women, Amy says. They can offer spiritual, emotional, and practical support for a woman and her family not just during pregnancy—but for life.

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